Wearing Squadron or Demo Team Patches - Is it ethicial?

[BigRedDogATL]

I know one aspect of this "hobby" is the collecting of various military squadron and demo team patches. Some of these patches are acquired as a gift from members of the squadron or demo team, some are purchased from the unit at various air shows and some are purchased from third party sources (such as Patchquest or ebay). I collect squadron and demo team patches myself and I see nothing wrong with doing this.

I also know that some people like to affix these patches to jackets or other pieces of clothing, but usually do so with more than one squadron patch affixed to the garment and do it in a way so as to not masquerade as a member of that squadron or demo team. My plan is to frame the patch I acquire along side of an appropriate photograph I took of that squadron or demo team.

Recently, at two different air shows, I have seen a trend that I feel isn't quite ethical. I have seen two different people, wearing a military style fight suits, affix squadron and/or demo team patches to their flight suit in such a manner as to appear to be an official member of that unit (which just so happened to be performing at that show). I know these people and I also know that they had no official connection to the squadron for whose patches they were wearing. To me, I feel this is going a bit too far.

What are the ethical considerations of what we do with the squadron or demo team patches that we acquire? Is it wrong to go out in public and wear these things in a manner such that the general public would confuse us with an official member of that unit? Is it a form of disrespect for the men and women that worked hard to earn the right to display these symbols? Is it legal to wear these patches in this manner?

It was pointed out to me that certain air show announcers like to wear look alike flight suits and also wear patches like I described. Is this fine?

Let's have a rational discussion on this topic, with all views respected.

[HOJO]

They sound like "Buzzards" too me. 

Check Six

[horse51]

I agree and there should be a cutoff point. I think the guys that wear the multiple, just to show like footprints of one's you have seen, maybe are friends with, etc are just fine. I think it shows support but folks that get the whole suit and just have the one would be unacceptable I think. I think there is an appreciation and impersonation line and those with vests, jackets, etc..keep it going as I personally think it is cool but the flights suits are for those in the Vipers, heritage flights, eagle, raptor, etc ....

Just my opinion

[Deadbolt]

In my personal opinion I feel that it is highly disrespectful to the men and women that have earned the right to wear those patches to parade yourself around as if you were one of them. For example, I know a certain member here who is a HUGE Red Sox fan and they have a ton of Red Sox attire. I think that by being a fan (Just like we are with aviation) they should be able to wear Red Sox stuff. If this person were to show up somewhere in a full Boston uniform, most people would think it is strange, but also disrespectful to the men who have busted their butts to wear that uniform. If you're a child or even a teenager that aspires to be in those shoes some day, I don't see a problem with it. I find it a bit strange for grown folks to do the same.

Like I mentioned, this is just my view on the whole thing. I would love to hear some opinions from the other side though.

DB

[Andyman]

With regards to the air show announcers, I think one of them got their suit (one of them as this person has many) from a team he flew with.  I see no problem with that as it was a gift, and his job is to interact with said demo teams. 

Now on the other hand, those others that "dress up" for airshows the word "poser" comes to mind. 

[Sagar Pathak]

I think that this is a very fine line to be walked. It's one thing to be embraced by certain team/squadrons, but just because they let you hang out with them does not give you a right to affiliate yourself with them. It's a privilege to be included, but to falsely imply that you're apart of the team is crossing the line. A bit of a tangent, but I was at one of the Fri night airshow dinner socials and hanging out with a demo team that I knew very well (they were all in flight suits, and I was in jeans and a tshirt). Older man walks up and expresses his gratitude and says how his son just joined the Air Force and wanted to buy everyone a round of beers. He goes and brings them back and hands me one. I felt guilty, but didn't want to be rude, so I kept it and handed it to one of the team members once they finished their drink.

I guess ultimately it's about what you do when you are wearing that patch. If you wear it during an airshow weekend, I think that's similar to a tshirt or hat (albeit a very extreme way to show your passion). If you wear it and walk into the O Club and start chatting up girls saying that you're a pilot, then that is unacceptable. That being said, I'm a huge San Jose Sharks fan, and wear a game used jersey to the games and at the bar. How is that any different?

And lastly, I was actually given a flight suit from an outgoing demo pilot and it came with the instructions that the only time I was to wear it was 1) Halloween and 2) In the bedroom. LOL! 

S

[phantomphan1974]

I have to agree with those that the flightsuit is pushing it.  Now if it was for a costume or you were in a fightsim squadron then maybe since your all together in one place.  But at an airshow....  I do have a flight jacket and have patches on it with velco.  I do get the occasional question if was or am a pilot. And I rotate the patches too.  I do have a nametag as well but is does not say pilot or anything, just my screen name.  But yes I have see on FC some pictures of what your talking about.  If I was to do an  air-to-air shoot I would get a flight suit(feel more the part) and put my name patch on it and probably my FC and APSoCal patches on it but I would only wear it for the flight, not at an airshow.   Again, that's my opinion.  One question though, are they saying they are from the squadron?

[f5racing]

I have to say that I agree that a flight suit is taking it too far if you are wearing squadron/team patches.  I see the flight suit, whether it is a demo flight suit or OD green, as a uniform.  For people to wear it, with no patches or identification, is no different than wearing BDUs for hunting or otherwise.  Once unit patches are introduced I think it is a slap to the face for those who have earned the privilege to wear the uniform.  While I have no problems with the collection of patches on a bag, jacket, or other garment, I myself only wear one.  The one I earned. 

Just my .02

[Liza]

With regards to the air show announcers, I think one of them got their suit (one of them as this person has many) from a team he flew with.

All of those suits he has were given to him by the various teams along with the patches for them. I've lost track of how many he has, but he may be in double digits now.

[Paperpilot]

The only people I have ever helped to dress in flightsuits with appropriate patches are my kids. Being that they are under 6, I don't think too many people are lining up for their autograph.

I will say, however, that most aircrew don't mind seeing folks with our patches etc but wearing a bag with accurate, real patches is a bit much. I think most crew are like me and have always been patch collectors to some degree or another and still think it's a great hobby. Maybe not so much on the make-believe dress up though.

That being said, see me at a show and I'll gladly do what I can to increase someones collection.

cheers,
Doug

[HiVisHornet]

Maybe its ultimately up to the demo teams/pilots to decide.

Maybe off topic, but perhaps the bigger issue is whether or not there are those whom mis-construe a demo team/pilot just "being nice" at a single airshow as "I want you to email us and hang out with us at every airshow".   

[gfydad]

I can see kids wearing suits and patches and adults displaying them on hats or jackets but not adults wearing flightsuits with correct patches.
Those who actually are members of the team have earned the right to wear those and the respect and courtesies that apply.

Case in point...
Some years back, there was a retired BGen and retired Col who were the commanding officers of a group supplying military honors both locally as well as Riverside National Cemetery. The two individuals were even invited to a military appreciation day by a local high school and were accorded the proper courtesies even by returning military who were combat veterans.

The, I find out that the "General" was actually a retired LtCol and the "Col" was a retired senior NCO. I exposed them for the frauds that they were and was able to stop their activities. It turned my stomach that these two had the lack of honor to masqerade with ranks they did not earn and allow families of vets as well as everybody else treat them with the proper respect for their fraudulent ranks. The "General's" only defense was that the buttons of their unforms were a little different than regulation. Tom Bunce, PJB & SR Aeronut might remember the situation.

I believe that wearing the uniform (or close reproduction) by an adult while possibly, well intended, is not really in the best of taste and not really the way to honor those men and women who have earned the right to wear the uniform (military or civilian).

[planenutzs]

I believe wearing Squadron or Demo Team Patches at an airshow is like wearing a sport jersey at a sporting event ( Being a supporting FAN)
You can wear/show your Support in a nice manner
Now airshow goers in full flightsuit attire and showing their Support are FINE...
as long as the don't make an A$$ of of themselves
I haven't seen many do that (at the airshow) but then there's the party afterwards
Again there is always one out there to screw it up for the Rest of Us

BTW... I wear my flightsuit with my Unit Patches that I was a Part of
Planenutzs
aka Bob

[Vikingnav]

There are some good points being made in this thread and I am glad to see the distinctions between the supporters and "Stolen Valor" groups. For the "stole valor" charlatins I think it is truly sad that those who otherwised served honorably would taint their service, risking a felony charge.  It was aptly said earlier that the fans with patches at air events are just as the fans at sporting events show which is a good thing.  The basic flightsuit is just a pair of coveralls, not anything that has to be earned.  It is like the popularity of field jackets in the seventies, just not as plentiful.  The tailored suits that demo teams wear are of a cut that few could fit into, much less be mistaken for a team member.  At the height of my F-4 days, I still would have not fit into a Thunderbird cut

A short anecdote...
A Friday night in Birmingham, after the late sortie, a group of us went to the lounge at the Marriott.  The place was well populated but one distinguished looking gentleman with a white beard was wearing a Navy captains dress uniform.  I am not familair with the Navy uniform names.  It wasn't the fanciest but not far from it.  He had pilot wings and several rows of ribbons.  Something didn'tr look right.  The young lieutenants had talked to him and learned he was a former commander of Topgun.  Possible, but something else still seemed out of place.  Finally, it sunk in.  One of his highest decorations was a USAF Good Conduct ribbon.   I then saw the rest of his ribbons were a hodge podge of all services in random order.  I never spoke to the man, just suggested the lieutenants ask him about his Good Conduct ribbon.

The real McCoys don't have to tell anyone who they are.  Those that aren't are easy to discern.  They may fool some but the fall is pretty hard once they are exposed.

Another group that just came to mind is the reenactors.  They are up front, proud to be saying they are reenacting.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN

[Mickey]

I remember VF31's "CO" at Oceana's airshow in 2006... 

An anecdote: Many years ago, I flew with one of 312 sqn's Starfighter-pilots in a Cessna from Volkel AB to Budel after a day of paradropping. Budel is a general aviation grass-strip. He was in jeans and sweater. When we landed and parked-up the Cessna, we walked over to the little building to meet with my dad who would drive us home. We ran into this gentleman in flightsuit, who gave "my" pilot a disapproving look. "My" pilot looked back at him with a slightly bewildered look at his face, wondering why on earth this other guy was wearing a flightsuit driving a Cessna.

Although most pilots love their flightsuits, the few pilots I've known who just fly anything with wings don't see it as a necessity, neither to be able to fly nor to impress anyone .